i didn’t ask permission to share their voices. but i don’t want to lose this discussion.
i don’t know how to link to the fb posting itself
it started with
Larry Marks shared StandWithUs’s video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt0Y4f_jU9U
Kirk Kirkpatrick I wonder what the Native Americans would have looked like protesting? AS someone who lived in Israel, do you guys have any idea what these people lives are like on a day to day basis? I can tell you one thing, if it were me (And I bet any of you) you would be doing more than this.
“Instead of taking the monies given to them to better their people, The Braves used it for sophisticated Tomahawk heads to attack colonists and more weapons for scalping, savages.”
Kirk Kirkpatrick Look at the way this video was translated, “La illaha illallah” is translated as
“There is no deity but Allah.”
As an Arabic speaker I can tell you this is better translated as “there is no God but God” The wrong translation was used for a reason – Propaganda. The “Stand with US” people want to propagandize you. I fought propaganda in the Eastern block. This is a common trick. Why do they feel they need to propagandize?
How many times have you heard “Israel is the only democracy in the region and our strongest ally? Yet Turkey is 300 miles from Israel and is a member of NATO (Israel is not) but everyone simply takes the first statement as real.
I grew up in the deep South in the 60s but I had to move to Israel to learn what the N-word really meant. Please do not support either side of this. Both are wrong but the Israelis are a good bit more Wrong.
What do you imagine the Palestinians should do? Just be calm as their people are killed, there lives are ruined over generations, and borders and utilities controlled by people who abuse them on a daily basis. What is your suggestion?
Kirk Kirkpatrick The Israelis are a good bit more wrong because of the weapons they are using and the much higher death toll. I would not expect you to argue their side. How is it possible?
You are a partisan. Can I ask you to relate your experience in the region? Educate me.
Faye Birnbaum Rosenberg Suffice to say that I have friends and relatives living in Israel, with CONSTANT bombardment of rockets being fired upon them for as long as they can remember. Are you really asking me to argue the proportionality argument with you? The Hamas goal of wiping out all Jews and Israel, using their people/women, children as human shields, storing rockets in UN schools, fudging their casualty numbers (i.e. military dead = civilian dead) and the list goes on… is something that you have either chosen to ignore or claim to be unaware of. If you truly are unaware of this, please spend some time looking into the crimes of Hamas. They are an evil entity, with only one true mission. My parents were both Holocaust survivors. Their ENTIRE families, bar a few very remote relatives, were obliterated by the evil which is again exemplified by Hamas. Call me partisan, or what you will. But evil is evil.
Kirk Kirkpatrick The holocaust has nothing to do with Hamas which was formed as a reaction to the occupation. That you even attempt to conflate these says EVERYTHING about your position.
The I have friends argument is priceless. My page is open. Look at my friend list. There is a new Israeli/Palestinian film called Bethlehem that has just won lots of awards about this conflict. One of the major actors in this film is a close trend of mine and I’m my friend list. Tell me do you have such “friends” on both sides? I do. I attended a yeshiva in Israel.
“I have friends who are colonists. The red man scalps our people. We are under attack from the savages. They massacre our villages. They are pure evil”
I don’t need to trust the figures from either side, I saw with my own eyes.
this is what i want to preserve—
Kirk Kirkpatrick “HAMAS is a terrorist group directly associated with ISIS.” more Propaganda. Where do you get this trove of information?
End the occupation and Hamas disappears. It is NOT intent on Killing all Jews and Christians. And in fact, the Christians in the area are a lot more scared of the Israelis than Hamas. Many of the people you are calling human shield volunteer for this duty and they are CHRISTIAN.
“he pure American Indians are not at war with us now or becoming terrorist organizations to kill all people.” No will killed almost all of them and put the others on reservations, sound familiar?
IN 1948 there were 200,00 Christians living on what is now the State of Israel. The Jews numbers 600,000. Now the Christians are less than 1% and most have left.
The worst part of this conflict is that it flies in the face of the purpose that Israel should be achieving. This will erode support for Israel and it will not be because the conflict is not properly represented. When you read what I have write understand that while I focus here on the Israeli side, I am fully aware of the shortcomings of the other side as well. But the writer of the article is not.
Israel could have short circuited this conflict by giving the people in the occupied territories the rights of Israeli citizenship. In my opinion there would be no conflict today. Attacks would occur but attacks occur in the US and London, Beijing and Madrid. But these attacks would come from wacko extremists and not people righting for their human rights.
Hamas exists as a reaction to the Israeli occupation and oppression of the Palestinians. Please remember that I lived under this occupation for more than 2 years. It is constant, and crushing, even though I was immune to a lot of it. But I was a closeup spectator. Were I a Palestinian I would be fighting as well. In any way I could fight. When a Palestinian minister wants a end to settlements he is a terrorist and killed (along with his whole family) by a missile from an Israeli helicopter, (this happened to one of my friends) but when an Israeli minister, whose stated position is to “Put the Arabs behind bulldozers and push them into the ocean until they drown,” is shot and killed, that is terrorism. Frankly, they are both terrorism.
This also ignores that Israel has huge track record of deception. Recently, when the three Israeli teenagers were killed, Israel IMMEDIATELY blamed Hamas. Hamas, who would have been proud to have actually killed them, denied it. They have no reason to deny this if they actually did it. Then a Palestinian teenager was killed. Immediately the Israelis blamed “honor killing” (this of course is playing on religious stereotypes) and said the family had killed the teenager because he was gay. They maintained this line until the Israelis who killed the teenager confessed. So their proclamations as to how “good” they are, don’t carry a lot of weight with me. Understand, this says nothing about the other side, Hamas or even the PA. Just because one side is “bad” does not mean the other side is “good.”
A home for the mentally and developmentally disabled was struck by Israel. The Israeli government responded by saying they had given the facility warning. The staff said the “Warning” came less than 5 minutes prior to the attack. I wonder if we could evacuate such facility in minutes? Now do in Gaza. I have been to Gaza when it was “nice” and it was not nice then.
The reality of the fact is that innocent Palestinians have been killed in far greater numbers than Israelis. Israel claims it is because “they protect” their people better. And this is true. But it is also because they attack more. They attack with massive force for minor purposes (air to ground missile on an apartment complex, for assassination as an example).
Again the Human shields argument is disingenuous. Firstly many of the Gazan “human Shields” are voluntary, people who take this risk because they know that it will make it harder for Israel to attack and feel they have no other way. If the Israelis were under occupation for 50 years and had no army, they would do it too. BTW there have been several instances of Israeli soldiers going through neighborhoods where they felt threatened and grabbing a young Palestinian boy, 8-13, so no one would take a shot at them as they went through. In the defense of Israel, when this is seen by international authorities, the soldiers are usually punished or tried. But it does happen now. Imagine of the Israelis were as desperate as the Palestinians.
When I lived in Israel, I said the PA should issue camcorders to every Palestinian with straight uploads to the Internet. Were people to see how life really is for these people, even the absolutely apolitical ones, on a day to day basis, Israel would be forced to change its policies.
Hamas would like to have the State of Israel go away, Barring that they would like Israel to retreat behind the 1967 borders and have two states. Would there be attacks from some people in that state on Israel? Yes, there would be. Would there be attacks on the new Palestinians state from some people in Israel, yes there would be.
My point to all of this is that this situation is too complex to be choosing a side other than “STOP KILLING EACH OTHER”. The world must realize that the Palestinians are people and they have no where to go. The only solution is to stop shooting at each other, start treating both sides with full rights, and start listening to the vast majority of both sides who want to live in peace. But living in peace does not mean living in subjugation. When the Palestinians have passports, when they have control of their own destiny, when their children stop dying in ratios less than some ridiculous one like 200:1 to the otter side, I’ll listen to comparisons. Until then there is only bad and bad.
—–Larry Marks Don’t bother. You will not find a receptive audience here. We all support Israel, with all it’s warts and issues. I think the Arabs living in Gaza and those that call themselves Palestinians are among the stupidest most pigheaded people on earth
—–Susie Henning Kuta Bye Bye Kirk, not sad to see a bigoted person get the hell out of here. YOUR NOT WELCOME.
upgraded chrome to Version 39.0.2137.0 canary (64-bit)
thieves on ebay. i bought a remote switch for my inverter. paid $43 for it, the guy had rewired and removed the remote switch from the circuit. and won’t refund the money. first time i’ve had to open a case.
rained again, hard wind driven, chris called, porch wet.
my mom shot herself in the head, the way her career army brother told her was the best way, on the sixth month anniversary of my dad’s death due to brain cancer. the pain never goes away entirely, but there are some days you don’t think about it, even more as time goes on. i got a lot out of a book-http://www.amazon.com/Stay-History-Suicide-Philosophies-Against/dp/0300186088
posted to http://www.patheos.com/blogs/goodletters/2014/08/we-who-are-left-behind/
“The stars in this constellation are actually really far apart. They have no relationship with each other. The only connection between them is the one that we humans have made.”
Which is, strictly speaking, true. Except that constellations have had all kinds of significance for human beings — shaping mythology and religion and early scientific inquiry — for millenia. What could be the purpose of declaring that profoundly human activity — making meaning and order and stories from the stars — a delusion?
It was probably for the sake of imparting correct facts that the teacher sought to disabuse the children of the wrongheaded notion that the stars in the Big Dipper have anything to do with one another. Except that in so doing, the powerful — and to my mind, destructive — subtext she was imparting was this:
“don’t trust your perceptions. What relationships and patterns you may see may well be a delusion or illusion. Only science can tell you the truth.”
Now, I may be accused of reading too much into all of this. Perhaps. But I persist, because I feel pretty sure that Inspiring children to study science shouldn’t proceed from a basis of suspicion, as if mythology and religion and literature were just inferior attempts at science, which we’ve only now gotten right, instead of other, significant and beautiful ways to talk about the experience of being human in the world.
– See more at: http://rachelmariestone.religionnews.com/2014/08/04/science-religion-humanism-stem-childs-imagination/#sthash.Q1AjOQnn.dpuf
but how profound. human beings find meaning in patterns…..
how we come to find those patterns is an historical journey of both the beauty and the failures of being human in communities. we are not the first to get it right, for 1- we are not the first and 2-we are not right
Upon hearing the news of Robin Williams, I offer these closing words from Jennifer Michael Hecht’s book “Stay”:
“None of us can truly know what we mean to other people, and none of us can know what our future self will experience. History and philosophy ask us to remember these mysteries, to look around at friends, family, humanity, at the surprises life brings — the endless possibilities that living offers — and to persevere. There is love and insight to live for, bright moments to cherish, and even the possibility of happiness, and the chance of helping someone else through his or her own troubles. Know that people, through history and today, understand how much courage it takes to stay. Bear witness to the night side of being human and the bravery it entails, and wait for the sun. If we meditate on the record of human wisdom we may find there reason enough to persist and find our way back to happiness. The first step is to consider the arguments and evidence and choose to stay. After that, anything may happen. First, choose to stay.”
Read the final chapter here and listen to Krista’s interview with the philosopher-poet here: http://www.onbeing.org/program/extra/conclusion-from-stay/6226.
-=-=-MOSTLY ON ROBIN WILLIAMS TODAY
obviously i spent the morning reading robin williams tributes. listening to crash test dummies, i’ll let him have the last word…..I feel like Adam when he said to Eve, “Back up, I don’t know how big this gets.”
i am trying hard to write genealogy narratives. i’ve done just a few: (1)http://rmwilliamsjr.net/wordpress/2012/06/12/the-mason-living-next-door/ (2)http://rmwilliamsjr.net/wordpress/2012/11/10/florence-ekstrom-sad-missed-connection/ (3)http://rmwilliamsjr.net/wordpress/2011/12/28/tied-together-by-wood/
2 kind, very well written people responded…
Schalene Jennings Dagutis Are you trying to tell the story of your research journey? Or the story of your ancestors lives? I do both on my blog, especially when the research leads to an a ha moment or raises more questions. Mostly, though, I tell stories about incidents in my ancestors lives, but rarely their entire story in one post. From the three posts for which you included it looks like you’re trying to do both in one post, which can sometimes get confusing to readers not as well versed as you in your genealogy. Who is your target audience? The answer should give you the point of view you need for writing. As an example if your target audience is other DNA researchers, then a post filled with info about chromosomes and your conclusions would be great.
Helen Youngblood Holshouser There is a lot of great information here, we can tell you know your research and DNA. I’ve done my DNA but I had trouble following your explanation. Only because of some of the terms which perhaps you are so familiar with, you don’t realize most of us don’t understand. You have great content here– perhaps enough for several “chapters” re. the same family. I was excited when I read your title, thinking my husband is a woodworker from German ancestors and would enjoy reading your story. However, it’s not really about woodworking even through DNA it seemed to me. Complicated and intellectual, but is that what readers want? Maybe, you,ll have to choose your audience.
Richard Mason Williams Jr. thank you for the excellent advice. i’ve mostly just written for myself, but i’d like to learn how to write for others as well. target audience, i will give that the thought it deserves, thanks! i’d love to read your blogs, is the url posted here somewhere? got it. tangled roots and trees, i have been there before thank you.
Schalene Jennings Dagutis Richard Mason Williams Jr. I was telling a friend just this morning that bloggers muddle along, experimenting, until we find our voice. I think I’m still searching a bit. My blog here: http://tangledrootsandtrees.blogspot.com/
Schalene Jennings Dagutis Also, there’s nothing wrong with writing for yourself. It’s how I started. I keep extensive research notes on each person in my tree — what source documents I’ve found, transcriptions of those documents, the order in which I found them, what questions I still have, what searches I’ve already done and the results, etc. After taking DNA tests, I incorporated all the matches I was able to make and the possibilities and likely conclusions I might draw. But I chose not to put all that on my blog as my family’s eyes would glaze over! My blog is for my family, far and wide, and I must admit, is also cousin bait, though that wasn’t my initial intent. I took over my research from my Dad when health issues prevented him from continuing. He can no longer speak but can read and understand conversation. So he is the main person I am writing for — that’s why I share some research process stuff instead of just ancestor stories. But realizing I was writing for my Dad helped me a ton in clarifying what to post.
Richard Mason Williams Jr. i will add both tangled roots and trees and http://heart2heartstories.com/ to my reading lists. thank you for writing them. i’m going to make this my current project. thank you for the encouragement
Heart of a Southern Woman
A snapshot of life one blog post at a time, including: community and family life, gardening, genealogy, people’s stories, spirtiuality, and health.